屯門區議會扶貧小組委託嶺南大學調查屯門區市民失業情況,報載結果說該區市民失業主因,是學歷低、欠技術。據報道,嶺南大學何濼生教授建議政府設立最低工資,稱只要最低工資定於「合理水平」,例如「六千元」,「未必影響就業」云云,嚇了筆者一大跳。
不知何教授知否律師會設定的實習生薪酬下限,也不過是六千大元。律師們捍衞公義,認為大學法律系畢業生的薪金,只不過不應少於六千元,為甚麼「學歷低、欠技術」勞工的最低工資設在六千元是合理?
實習律師與清潔同酬?
筆者反對最低工資,便是因為這種反智的邏輯。如果最低工資是體現無技術、無學歷者的尊嚴,便是踐踏有學歷、有技術者的尊嚴。從大西北持單程證到港、言語不通、無學歷和技能的大嬸在香港拿六千元,那麼住公屋那批基層家長,如何鞭策子女好好讀書?子女必會反駁:讀來作啥?讀完法律三、五年,人工不過幾千、一萬元;萬一只有副學士取錄,薪酬七千元,倒欠政府年息八厘的十多萬元貸款要還至天長地久,不如讀完中五做電訊公司推銷員算了!
有了最低工資,這些基層團體也不會滿足,天主教勞工事務委員會便搞了個「家庭工資」運動,指合理的工資水平,最少相等於「家庭工資」,即至少足夠維持整個家庭的基本生活需要。僱主要因為僱員已婚而多付一倍薪酬!精明的香港人,屆時不再開OT,而會在晚上與配偶努力「工作」,生足八個,一家十口,要求薪酬六萬可以嗎?日前更有一個甚麼「民間爭取最低工資聯盟」,呼籲市民「投訴」時薪低於三十元的工作。筆者自小受「種瓜得瓜」的誨訓,不明白想加人工為甚麼不是靠努力工作而是去投訴!一旦有了最低工資,工人便會只顧上街爭取提高最低工資,而不是努力工作和進修。如果實行劃一最低工資,多找三個張建宗都「做唔掂」。
政府可提供低收入補貼
話說回來,為了「可憐」低學歷、欠技術的失業者而設最低工資,其實最浪費社會資源。八十年代初,很多女孩以車衣為出路,但工廠北移令市場對工人需求逐漸下降,先沒有加班,其後連找工作也有困難,父母和老師認識到工廠是夕陽行業,不建議下一代入行,更發揮「常哦」精神,督促下一代好好讀書。當年這個過程是緩慢的。如果那時候已有最低工資,便會一直吸引新血入工廠──因為薪酬還能餬口。但最低工資推高成本,工廠必定更受不住大陸的平價勞工引誘,更快內遷!結果是有更多工人入錯行而恨錯難返。扎鐵工人遇到的問題便是如此,建屋用預製組件,即使樓市復蘇,需求也不會大增。最低工資能保障他們的工資,但不保證他們有工作!
政府可以提供福利,包括低收入補貼,讓那些沒有技術的工人得以維生。這樣,低技術工人能維生,但也意識到沒學歷不行。最低工資打亂社會分配資源的機制,不能設立。到地獄的道路由善意鋪成,最低工資對基層勞工,是慢性毒藥,不但麻醉他們,也麻醉他們的下一代。
22 則留言:
簡直是一篇無知的文章!
不負責任的言論,狗口。
"不 知 何 教 授 知 否 律 師 會 設 定 的 實 習 生 薪 酬 下 限 , 也 不 過 是 六 千 大 元 。"
知唔知咩叫實習生?就好似整車學徒咁,人地要教你,你係學緊o野,教你成為整車師父,另外俾返d錢你去維持基本生活開銷,等你以後有所成,就自然人工會高,合情合理。
"律 師 們 捍 衞 公 義 , 認 為 大 學 法 律 系 畢 業 生 的 薪 金 , 只 不 過 不 應 少 於 六 千 元 , 為 甚 麼 「 學 歷 低 、 欠 技 術 」 勞 工 的 最 低 工 資 設 在 六 千 元 是 合 理 ?"
好抱歉地一d咁有學歷人士會認為自己一世都會拿六千蚊,將自己同學歷低 、 欠技術、無前途,只為幾餐糊口的人士作比較。
"話 說 回 來 , 為 了 「 可 憐 」 低 學 歷 、 欠 技 術 的 失 業 者 而 設 最 低 工 資 , 其 實 最 浪 費 社 會 資 源 。"
設最低工資係如果係為左"可憐"低學歷、欠技術的失業者,咁綜援呢?綜援直頭係派錢俾果d唔做o野o既人喇,咁更浪費社會資源,叫政府cut左去丫笨?
只能講,筆者係一個超級白痴o既人,點都無可能將一個律師見習生,咁有"錢"途o既人同低收入士比較,好多無讀大學,無文憑,出來有左工作經驗,憑自己努力,都會有升職加薪,都唔止搵六千,如果有個律師見習生一世都係搵六千蚊一個月,一世無職升,我諗個律師見習生都要好好檢討下。
//律 師 們 捍 衞 公 義 , 認 為大 學 法 律 系 畢 業 生 的 薪 金 , 只 不 過 不 應 少 於 六 千 元 , 為 甚 麼 「 學 歷 低 、 欠 技 術 」 勞工 的 最 低 工 資 設 在 六 千 元 是 合 理 ?//
何等的階級理論. 大學生有何了不起? 律師們就一定是捍衛公義的嗎? 只有律師在捍衛公義嗎? 律師捍衛公義是為了錢嗎? 如果基層市民一家幾口爭取的都只是6000元的最低工資基本生活保障和尊嚴, 若認為法律系畢業生的薪金應該更好, 也應去爭取. 因為我的工資低, 你們便應少囉唆, 也不該爭取, 這是什麼道理?
//實 習 律 師 與 清 潔 同 酬 ?//
為什麼實習律師不同與清潔同酬? 你以什麼準則衝量不可, 是絕對的嗎? 完全沒有問題的嗎? 這根本是知識霸權, 階級歧視, 可能還會來一套什麼自由市場經濟...巴巴巴...真是比官更官.
//筆者 反 對 最 低 工 資 , 便 是 因 為 這 種 反 智 的 邏 輯 。 如 果 最 低 工 資 是 體 現 無 技 術 、 無 學 歷者 的 尊 嚴 , 便 是 踐 踏 有 學 歷 、 有 技 術 者 的 尊 嚴 。 //
無技術, 無學歷只是官方對於無能解決工業轉移, 跨國企業壟斷, 勞動人口就業不足的藉口. 不料, 竟被民間挪用來打人的理由. 唉.
//從 大 西 北 持 單 程 證 到 港 、 言 語 不 通、 無 學 歷 和 技 能 的 大 嬸 在 香 港 拿 六 千 元 , 那 麼 住 公 屋 那 批 基 層 家 長 , 如 何 鞭 策 子 女好 好 讀 書 ? 子 女 必 會 反 駁 : 讀 來 作 啥 ?//
讀書只為了升官發財這論述現在仍有人挪用, 作為香港人, 我也有點滴汗了. 其他我實在看不下去了.
完全贊同sharon的說法, 但想再補充一點
//律 師 們 捍 衞 公 義 , 認 為大 學 法 律 系 畢 業 生 的 薪 金 , 只 不 過 不 應 少 於 六 千 元 , 為 甚 麼 「 學 歷 低 、 欠 技 術 」 勞工 的 最 低 工 資 設 在 六 千 元 是 合 理 ?//
何等的階級理論. 大學生有何了不起? 律師們就一定是捍衛公義的嗎? 只有律師在捍衛公義嗎? 律師捍衛公義是為了錢嗎? 如果基層市民一家幾口爭取的都只是6000元的最低工資基本生活保障和尊嚴, 若認為法律系畢業生的薪金應該更好, 也應去爭取. 因為我的工資低, 你們便應少囉唆, 也不該爭取, 這是什麼道理?
同意, 所以律師和基層市民都應收取同樣的工資, 以達共產的偉大理想天堂, 保衛無資上階級的尊嚴!!!
//實 習 律 師 與 清 潔 同 酬 ?//
為什麼實習律師不同與清潔同酬? 你以什麼準則衝量不可, 是絕對的嗎? 完全沒有問題的嗎? 這根本是知識霸權, 階級歧視, 可能還會來一套什麼自由市場經濟...巴巴巴...真是比官更官.
我很喜歡這一句"這根本是知識霸權, 階級歧視, 可能還會來一套什麼自由市場經濟", 擲地有聲!!這分明就是共產主義的核心思想, 為甚麼李嘉誠不可和清潔同酬?分明就是對無產階級的剝削!!!!
//筆者 反 對 最 低 工 資 , 便 是 因 為 這 種 反 智 的 邏 輯 。 如 果 最 低 工 資 是 體 現 無 技 術 、 無 學 歷者 的 尊 嚴 , 便 是 踐 踏 有 學 歷 、 有 技 術 者 的 尊 嚴 。 //
無技術, 無學歷只是官方對於無能解決工業轉移, 跨國企業壟斷, 勞動人口就業不足的藉口. 不料, 竟被民間挪用來打人的理由. 唉.
唉!只怪香港太多好像筆者般沒有智慧的資產階級, 要是這個社會,多點如sharon般的共產理想家, 推翻資本主義這個剝削制度, 會是多好!
//從 大 西 北 持 單 程 證 到 港 、 言 語 不 通、 無 學 歷 和 技 能 的 大 嬸 在 香 港 拿 六 千 元 , 那 麼 住 公 屋 那 批 基 層 家 長 , 如 何 鞭 策 子 女好 好 讀 書 ? 子 女 必 會 反 駁 : 讀 來 作 啥 ?//
讀書只為了升官發財這論述現在仍有人挪用, 作為香港人, 我也有點滴汗了. 其他我實在看不下去了.
讀書, 根本不可以用來求財, 否則便會因為邪惡的資本,可惡的臭錢, 出賣了無資產階級學生的靈魂, 給剝削資本家荼毒無資產階級
讀書的唯一目的,便是要和sharon一樣, 實踐無產階級革命, 打倒階級敵人, 推翻資本主義這一個剝削的制度, 革命, 才是讀書的唯一目的。
讀書用來求財,吥, 我和sharon才不會稀罕這些資產階級用來麻醉學生的毒藥
我勸筆者還是多點到sharon 的網頁看看, 學習一下無資產階級的正確思想應該是怎樣!
讀這麼多書竟然支持資本家剝削無產階級的慌話, 筆者的書是白讀了.
幸好這世上還有sharon,這個無產階級的旁樣 無產階級的革命還有希望!!!
寫得好!!! 通往地獄的路, 除了由善意鋪成的, 還有那些別有用心的政客的推波助瀾. 共產主義的實驗已是上一世紀人類社會最大的教訓. 而西方福利經濟的苦果亦漸漸浮現. 那班善良而無知的左傾的人,請多讀歷史教訓!我可預期現在香港民粹主義抬頭, 必定導致下一代飽嚐苦果.
人人平等, 工資相若的理想社會, 在上世紀的共產國家出現過. 這個理想社會結果是"共貧"社會. 這教訓實在太慘痛了!!!
共產社會其實就是提倡最低工資,價格管制的左傾者的理想社會. 現在好像只有古巴是共產主義國家, 就將那些政客拋到那裡, 讓他們嚐嚐滋味!
「共產社會其實就是提倡最低工資,價格管制的左傾者的理想社會. 現在好像只有古巴是共產主義國家, 就將那些政客拋到那裡, 讓他們嚐嚐滋味!」
可悲的是,世上大部分國家都有最低工資…
可悲的是,提倡最低工資的人,永遠不會明白大部分老闆都不會願意用時薪四十去請一個市價廿五的人。
當M記文叔及一眾只求自力更生老弱傷殘被更有市場價值的員工取代,而M記確實是在付法定最低工資予一個年輕力壯智力正常後生仔的時候,工會又會說M記不道德、政府忽視弱勢社群了——當然,一切都是最低工資惹的禍,自是沒人記住了。
通往地獄的路,確是由善意鋪成的——尤其是這些「善意」乃出自只懂人身攻擊的人之口。
錯,大錯特錯, 一切都係資本家剝削的錯, 源頭依然係資本主義這個剝削度的錯.
追求平等, 由最低工資開始,之後抗爭,革命, 擴大到每個行業, 到最後只到有工, 就要同酬,再取消貨幣這個剝削的制度, 人人得到平等的結果, 有尊嚴地生存下去.
支持最低工資的原因,只是因為我們相信共產主義這個偉大的烏托邦, 為無產階級爭取公義, 僅此而已.
當世上最大的共產國家也在講「物權」時,原來仍有人高呼無產就是最公平,好野!
但,可唔可以唔好共產我部NDS呀?我辛苦工作儲左好耐錢買架…(大概那又是資本家的錯!)
好熱鬧啊,藍天蔚放了幾天假,回來看見討論熱烈,點都要加把嘴。
如果大西北的大嬸黎到香港好受歡迎,有人肯用八萬五請佢,我一定支持,仲覺得佢好勁,好似早排有個目不識丁、沒有正識學過藝術的阿婆,畫畫被認為很似梵高,還在香港攪展覽,完全無所謂....anyway.
可能有好多人覺得我好冷血,但若果我將這些問題放在一個細小的範圍,例如在一些公司,好多原本好左的人,都變得好右。
藍天蔚有機會接觸唔同階層的人。做公司基層的人,永遠覺得上面D人唔駛做,自己先係做野,例如自己先係寫program果個,或者自己先係對客,唔明點解上面D人唔做野但可以拿好高人工;到了一個人升了做middle management,就一定覺得老細好廢,下面果D又蠢,做死自己。到了top management,便會覺得,下屬永遠做唔到自己做緊的決策,所以一定覺得自己值呢個人工,也明白為什麼下面的同事不值。
還有,打得工就一定覺得,同level的同事「唔係路」,唔做野淨係擦鞋人工就同自己差唔多,而且好希望人工同工作量掛勾(這便是市場),或者會因為「做多d又唔會加人工」,所以做野好求其。做管理層的,每當見到唔得既下屬都好想炒,因為下屬偷懶,係好勁的傳染病,分分鐘勁過sars,因為一個懶,第二個見到,便一定有樣學樣,你唔處理,便成班人都一樣。就算炒唔到,都好想找點方法,給好的人一點incentive...,這,也是市場。
你有這樣想過嗎?如果有,為什麼關係到你自己的事時,你這麼「自私」(我支持自私的!),但一講到社會,便咁「慷慨」?是不是因為你不是老闆,不用付出?
OK, come back to my point. 人工唔一定要同學識掛勾,學經濟的人都知道,經濟不單講錢,還講滿足感/滿意度(utility)。對一些人來說,滿足感不來自錢,所以李卓人港大畢業肯去做工會。但這是他的選擇。
但是,如果一個對社會毫無「貢獻」(施永青最鍾意講,有糧出的人對社會才有貢獻),但為了要給他尊嚴,所以要「老闆」,即社會上某一個同佢無親無故的人,付出這批尊嚴,有誰願意?老闆一定不肯、不願意,除非他們的目標是開善堂。最低工資便是要老闆們開善堂。莫說老闆,在很多地方,對家庭沒有貢獻都會被飛,何況在一間公司?
為了get around最低工資,老闆們一定只會請仍然值最低工資的人,例如好醒目的亞嬸、仲好壯健的中年男人、剛畢業的副學士,那麼,很多人連工作都不會有。舉個例子,M記時薪低,工會成日媽叉人地,但M記請了很多在其他地方根本無人請的人,包括家庭主婦、智障人士、長者......到底有工作比較有尊嚴,還是最低工資比較有尊嚴?還有,早幾年,很多細路畢業等於失業,那時候,他們也未必在乎人工,反而在乎一份工,因為,一個人連第一份工都無,就唔會有第二份。
如果我們的社會,是鼓勵「不勞而獲」(你明明只值三千,老細要比六千,你便白收三千了),我們便無法鼓勵人進步。家庭工資的概念,與公社同出一轍。結果會如何? 大陸十三億人口,便是這樣攪出來的,因為做又三十六,唔做又三十六,米糧由公社按人口分配,大陸人便「日頭唔做夜晚做」!懂了嗎?
最後,鏟我果幾位,如果你(第日)叫你個仔好好讀書時,佢好似我作咁答你,你還會支持最低工資嗎?
藍天蔚
當世上最大的共產國家也在講「物權」時,原來仍有人高呼無產就是最公平,好野!
----
其實這只是資本剝削主義走到盡頭的先兆,
你看, 香港這個受盡剝削資本家剝削的地獄,越來越多人走出來反抗這個不公義的制度, 上面有Sharon, 在街外的,還有工會,保育,環保人士等等,而且,要不是無產階級受盡剝削,也不會有人組織獨立媒體這個無產階級勝地.
他們都只是披著不同外衣的無產階級, 等待著革命的機會, 現在哪個剝削股市正在發狂, 是無產階級實現理想的好時機.
All these arguments against a minimum wage ultimately rest on neoclassical economic theory, its being concerned with market efficiency and the so-called Pareto Optimality. Although I doubt the question of minimum wages in HK is as straight forward as the author of this piece suggests (because the reality is seldom as straight forwards as neoclassical economist model it) I would like to put this aside for a moment and raise another question?
I really wonder where all these guardians of market efficiency are when another big problem for efficient markets in Hong Kong is concerned. That problem is very real and existent and comes from the other side of the social ladder. It's the often enough grotesque obstruction of market principles through anticompetitive practices, price-cartels and collusion that big companies and family conglomerates in Hong Kong are engaged in. No sure, there is no evidence for it. But since there is still no competition law passed and it seems utterly unlikely that there will ever be an effective, meaning cross-sector bill passed, these practices are simply legal. We all know that it happens big time and I wonder how many billions of HK dollars go into the pockets of succesful "entrepreneurs" like Mr Li Ka-Shing that are simply due to abuse of market power and not innovation or other competitive means of entrepreneurial success. Yet, without a law nobody can investigate. Without investigation there is of course no evidence.
Where is the public outcry about this phenomenon, I wonder? Where are all the editorials that damn this big time “waste of social resources”? How comes business leaders like Spencer Ma Wai-pong of CPA Australia can make such mind-boggling statements such as the Hong Kong “the economy might be less efficient” if a cross-sector competition law was introduced (SCMP 20/03/07), without being condemned by those guardians of the efficient market? Would it have something to do with Hong Kong's not just recent, but recently increasing high correlation of monetary wealth and political power? I really wonder …
Well, it is revealing that I do not get an answer on this.
Trinculo,
there's no one talking about anti-competitive law since there's already a common believe that we should have a ompetitive law here in HK. The govt has already drafting the law. So, arguing whether we should have a competitive law is history.
I personnally think we should have a anti-competitive law, although my friends in Apple Daily opposed and spined it as anti-trust law.
However, either side of the debate has its own arguments. Those opposing it will think that it's too easy for the govt to manipulate the law and restrict the flexibility of enterprises. Supporters quote examples of anti-competitive behaviours contradicting common sense. I still think that, in some cases, market fails and need some kinds of govt intervention.
Lam Tin Wai
the problem of writing english is that, I have a habit to write first and review. By the time I reread my comments, it's too late for me to amend. Therefore, from time to time, grammatical mistakes and wrong spelling are found here. (sth like "has already drafting". This shouldn't be seen anywhere)Pls accept that my English is not as good as Chinese.
Mr. Lam,
As far as I am concerned you can continue to write in Chinese. In order to avoid embarrassment, I rather write in English though.
Concerning the competition law, you seem far more optimistic than others (me included)
that Hong Kong will get a comprehensive and effective competition law anytime soon. (see e.g. Alice Poon on Asia Sentinel
http://www.asiasentinel.com/
index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=
454&Itemid=32)
Also, widespread collusion and uncompetitive behavior (or rather competitive behavior without appropriate regulations) – in contrast to the payment of minimum wages – is actually happening in Hong Kong now, day in and day out. Every single day people pay much more than they would need to under functioning markets for various goods and services. You don't need to be a genius to figure out who is profiting most from this. We might also want to speculate how the extreme income differences in Hong Kong are actually exaggerated by its cartelized market structures. If you are the fearless defender of efficient markets you are stylizing yourself into in the above article, where are your opinion pieces about this phenomenon? Excuse me if I missed it, but I cannot find any mentioning of competition or competition legislation anywhere on your blog. If Hong Kong will ever be able to pass a serious bill to improve this situation, a lot of public pressure will be necessary under current political conditions. Where is it going to come from if not from the press? If you are consistent about your preference for efficient markets, you should be at the forefront of this push.
Best regards
Trinculo,
I believe you're the "Anonymous". It seems that you're not residing in HK, or you didn't follow this issue very closely.
The debate on competition law has already ended, although it has been extended since early 90s.
The govt is going to publish and consult the public on the white bill of the competition bill next year. It means that the govt prepared to submit the bill to the Legislative Council but just stop to consult the public on the detail contents on the clauses before really do that.
The big political debate and pressure regarding this has already happened over the past year but I don't prepare to repeat here.
When I knew that this is coming and I support this, why should I spend effort in talking about this?
However, I talked about Minimum wage since I don't want it to be here, and it's yet a reality. This is still meaningful for me to work on this topic.
This makes sense. Right?
Lam Tin Wai
Mr Lam,
Yes, that was me there. I was gonna get back on this earlier. Well, I do indeed live here since 1,5 half years only. Yet that is why, I might be puzzled how the Hong Kong public responds to the persistent abuse of market power to gain profit on the expense of the public in general and market efficiency. While I cannot claim to have the total overview over ALL HK media, what I was baffled how little response there is on this topic.
You might disagree on this, but I find it politically naïve to believe “the government” will now wholeheartedly find a solution without continuous pressure from the side of – well people like you – commentators and other voices from civil society. We all now how these “consultation exercises” are conducted in HK. As it was laid out in the article I linked above, some people observe that certain political forces in HK do everything to water down this bill, so it does will not harm their profit margins. That is why, while it is of course up to you what you are working on, I do believe you should actually work on this topic now, if you are consistent in your principles. I assume the fact that I cannot find the “競爭法” anywhere on your blog doesn’t mean that you have worked on this topic in the past then? In any case, I expect to read your ferocious attacks when the legislation will actually be watered down as I and seemingly also others believe.
And on the minimum wage part, I still think your argument is flawed on many points. 1) I doubt that a wage that is somewhere above 4000 HK will have an effect on individual’s incentive to acquire what is called human capital. 2) Jobs for cleaners, security guards and most others affected by this law could NOT be relocated to the mainland. 3) Young people can be exempted from a minimum wage or it can be set much lower, so it doesn’t affect the option for youngsters to gain working experience for low pay (this is actually practiced in many countries e.g. the UK). In fact, there is ample evidence in international research in economics, that a moderate minimum wage with exemptions for trainees and youngsters has minimal to no effects on the labor market. So the argument which you present as so straight forward is actually not straightforward at all.
Taken together (excuse me repeating myself) make me find it ridiculous to talk about a waste of social resources through a minimum wage, without talking about the big time waste of social resources that goes directly in the pockets of those who have in HK.
Best regards
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